“蓦然回首女匪阿兰”

searain

笛韵在cnd著文“蓦然回首王心刚”，说到王心刚，就少不了王晓棠。老电影的女演员中王晓棠最漂亮，王晓棠演的角色中女土匪阿兰最漂亮。

王晓棠的其他角色，除了银环还有一两个镜头的印象外，其他都记不大清楚了。可是女土匪阿兰的形象还很清晰，那可是飒爽英姿，智勇双全，忍辱负重，出污泥而不染，剑胆琴心，最后宁死不屈，壮烈牺牲，几乎就是个有血有肉的完美女英雄形象。

后来，好像有一种说法是，原来的结尾阿兰舍身为情郎“于洋”挡子弹，壮烈殉情。真是这样，那“英雄虎胆”就精彩了。可是，后来确定的电影结尾是“狗尾巴”，阿兰发现受骗上当，银牙一咬，慧剑断情，举枪欲击毙于洋，被“我军”抢先一步击毙。

那时，咱还是小屁孩，可也是受“我党”教育多年了，崇拜所有当时电影里的英雄，扬子荣郭建光等等，可就是为了这个“狗尾巴”结尾，讨厌那个只知道出卖利用阿兰的于洋。就是那一心为党国，受尽误解委屈的反革命的老黄牛独眼龙也比“于洋”看着顺眼了。我那时自己“改编”的英雄虎胆结尾是，阿兰最后那一枪及时打了出去，击毙了那个狗东西“于洋”，然后香消玉殒，含笑殉国。

音乐起，镜头拉出，天地间，阿兰的头像占了半个银幕，在云端，笑看人间，然后渐渐化入云霄。镜头再拉出，万里云天，万里山河。

三十多年后，才看到同样的电影结尾。Van Helsing的结尾，音乐起，Kate Beckinsale的面庞化作天上的云，笑看人间，一滴清泪滑落云端。

马骝

怎么老二没来踩乎？

王晓棠是漂亮，角色也合适她，后来就没有太让人印象深刻的表演了，不过平心而论，国内很多明星整个演艺生涯也就演几部戏而已。

你的结尾很有意思。

见解

原来老牌漂亮女演员在小站是这样被捧红的... searain 的激情影评甚至超过了专业写手.

怎么, 老二还有更加合适的人选?

当年看过, 印象最深的, 就是那段"伦巴"了. 那时可不得了, 多数人连TANGO都闻所未闻, 更不用说目睹了. 一些小混混在下面不无得意地模仿, 大家悄悄讨论时的那种神秘表情, 也不比电影本身逊色呢. 芜媚风流的女特务, 呵呵, 开玩笑. 王晓棠官拜少将军衔.


“男看王心刚，女看王晓棠”之说，他们是近半个世纪前的“金童玉女”(ZT)


最令人记忆犹新的是在与于洋共同出演的电影《英雄虎胆》，王晓棠的反角风头竟然盖过了主角。片中她演的是国民党特务阿兰，舞会上阿兰勾引打入敌人内部的解放军，还跳了一段当时闻所未闻的热情激昂的伦巴，苗条的身躯散发着青春的气息。王晓棠回忆说，当初拍摄的时候一改再改剧本，就是因为生怕将阿兰拍得太漂亮了，让观众“敌我不分”。但尽管如此，许多观众看了《英雄虎胆》之后，依然对王晓棠的美丽大发感慨，有人还对晓棠说：“哎呀，其实阿兰是可以改造好的。”也有人说：“嗨！这么好的闺女怎么就让国民党找去了呢。”甚至还有人惋惜地说：“哎，她也牺牲了。”而问题，就出在了漂亮上。 据说，此片播出以后，当时的大街小巷就暗潮涌动，出现了许多偷偷学跳伦巴的青年男女。而王晓棠“中国第一女特务”的雅号也不胫而走，对此，崔永元曾说过：“老电影里只有女特务烫发，只有女特务有女性曲线。不只是女特务，其他反面人物形象也经常比正面人物容易流传，这可能是因为正面人物太拘谨、太模式化了吧。”


伦巴 (@ 3min) (@ 5min 有现代阿兰的风采---电视剧版)



"香消玉殒"

searain

2# 马骝
Yeah, I was busy in looking for a job.   4 months ago, some guys got government fund for a 17 months projects, they were offering me a full time contractor job.  But after I told them that these systems they wanted to develop, I could finish them in a few days by installing good open source sytems.  But I could use the time to develop advanced systems in the other areas to make them look great and be the best in their areas.  They asked a lot of tech details and then took back their offer and told me that they delayed their project for 4 months.  I guess they just took my idea and run.  They don't need a great system, they just need something to show to the government.

searain

3# 见解
Just for this piece, new TV cannot match the old movie in all aspects.

yi_ran

Wow. A few days for you, or 4 months for average developers, to finish a 17 months project. I am speechless.

4# searain

ms_lt

2# 马骝
Yeah, I was busy in looking for a job.   4 months ago, some guys got government fund for a 17 months projects, they were offering me a full time contractor job.  But after I told them that t ...
searain 发表于 2009-10-23 03:28 PM

Next time, don't tell them any detail and get 17 months easy money!

马骝

4# searain

Very sorry to hear that.

这年头，找个像样的工作是很不容易，希望你好运气！

老瓦

女特务总是比女革命漂亮，一点不假，不过王晓棠的漂亮却不怎么记得住了。倒是三十年代上海滩的影星们让人回味涟涟：））

yi_ran

我上小学时在同学家自习。她家有一叠文革前的大众电影，我们总是偷看，看也看不够，觉得每个女演员都那么漂亮。后来想起来有些人其实不是天生丽质的，像张瑞芳，田华。

雾雨

建议LZ将此线改为“女特务”专线，俺特意贡献一贴：

陆丽珠--1957年在上海开拍的《永不消逝的电波》中，扮演日伪“双料”女特务兼汉奸交际花柳尼娜。曾和王心刚演过对手戏，王心刚演个反派--国民党的报务员，看孙道临受刑，就投降日本了。


http://baike.baidu.com/view/1303198.htm
陆丽珠丰腴性感，冷艳高雅，气质不凡。她多年来的舞台表演功底，练就了扎实地塑造各类角色的技巧，当时八一厂的著名女导演王苹选中，正要选择一个外表性感成熟的少妇饰演一名女特务，时任北京实验话剧团著名演员陆丽珠即被选中，于1957年在上海开拍的《永不消逝的电波》中，扮演日伪“双料”女特务兼汉奸交际花柳尼娜。作为出镜较多，戏份充足的这一反派角色，陆丽珠把柳尼娜这个高级交际花出身、先后投靠汪精卫政府和日本情报机关的“双重间谍”的汉奸高级交际花女特务，表演的极其富有层次。

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_1175758_1.html
特别是在著名化妆师颜碧君老师的造型化妆下，外表丰腴性感；冷艳高雅，表演矜持而不做作的陆丽珠饰演的柳尼娜造型性感而妖艳一双传神的眼睛的眼皮上晕染成一片，显得很妩媚传神，每一场戏都是一套紧身的漂亮旗袍高跟鞋。给人印象深刻是戏中陆丽珠饰演的柳尼娜身穿露胸旗袍披着肩披，以及身着美式军装烫发船形帽，一个是性感妖媚一个是英峻妩媚更是给那个“及左”的年代带来了一丝漂亮女人的曲线美，虽然戏中的柳尼娜是女特务，但也还是唤起了不少少男少女的喜欢电影中的女特务的角色的怪现象，难怪连中央电视台《半边天》主持人曾在主持的节目中感慨地回忆说小时候的她喜欢的不是好女人，而是电影里的女特务，因为当时只有在电影里才看见那些具有女性外部特征的所谓臭美的女人。女特务一般穿着花旗袍、戴着长耳坠，烫着发，我就觉得这些女人的特别好看。这一方面说明那个年代女性渴望美的原始本性，另一方面也说明陆丽珠饰演的女特务柳尼娜这一角色给人们留下了深刻的印象。

yi_ran

有个不美的女特务，好像叫叶琳琅，觉得她就是女特务的样子。

红豆

新版和旧版的化妆都很假也。。。尤其是反面人物。

云天

4# searain

Very sorry to hear that.

这年头，找个像样的工作是很不容易，希望你好运气！
马骝 发表于 2009-10-23 05:54 PM

楼主好文采！
也“希望你好运气！”


欧对《野火春风斗古城》印象更深。

searain

6# yi_ran
"Wow. A few days for you, or 4 months for average developers, to finish a 17 months project. I am speechless. "

Not how good I am, just they have no idea that there are free open source systems they can use instead of in house developing.

They had a 17 months project to train low skill workers.  And they thought they would need all kind online platforms to support their project, 7 or 8  at their list, such as for online course management, online books and magazines, client relationships management, online community, wiki, blog etc.  They wanted to hire one full time developer (I applied for) to develop these systems and one full time online marketer to use and manage these online systems.

They asked how much I would charge them if I would develop all these systems for them (but that job was for a full time position on contract base).  I gave them detailed reports and told them for each major requirement they had, there were at least more than 2-3 pretty good open source systems they could select from.  And install these systems was easy.

Modify or add patches etc. if needed might be time consuming, if I got the job, most of my time would be on these modification and patches.  And also on some small tasks if no good open source to use which I would have to develop by myself.

They asked me a lot of tech details about these systems I recommended, which they didn't know anything about.  And then they told me the project is postponed.  I guess that they thought they just didn't need the patches or other small tasks.  They could just use the open source systems I recommended to do most of the works and forget about other small issues.

I don't think the knowledge about the systems I recommended is a big deal, it is common knowledge, so I didn't keep it as secrets and I tell them all about it trying to get that job.  Which worked in the first place, they offered me job the next day but then I thought they told themselves "wait a minute, if it was so easy, why we need this guy?"

见解

3# 见解
Just for this piece, new TV cannot match the old movie in all aspects.
searain 发表于 2009-10-23 03:40 PM

多少是这么回事. 不过我们也不可避免的"先入为主". 如果当时选的不是王, 或者如果时序颠倒过来, 人们也有可能会从王的身上找差距. 文革的后遗症太深远了, 以至于包括俺自己在内或许都觉得再也演不出文革前那么好的片子来了.

东少

15# searain
If I was in your situation, all I might mention to them just a few keywords such as "xoops modules", "joomla!" blahblah, that would take them months to figure out.


Wish you good luck Searain!

searain

15# searain
If I was in your situation, all I might mention to them just a few keywords such as "xoops modules", "joomla!" blahblah, that would take them months to figure out.

Wish you good luc ...
东少 发表于 2009-10-23 09:16 PM

There were 4 finalists for that position, I emailed a detailed report told them how would I do that after the interview.  And the next day they gave me the offer and told me that my detailed report made the differences.  But then the week after,  when I went to their office twice, to take the contract and to sign the contract, they asked me a lot tech details about these systems and then before I officially started to work, they told me the project was postponed for 2-4 months and when they restarted the project they would re-contact me.

红豆

14# 云天
王晓棠还是挺好看的。但是我不喜欢的她的肿眼泡 （下眼睑太肿也），鼻子好像也低了些。

见解

新版和旧版的化妆都很假也。。。尤其是反面人物。
红豆 发表于 2009-10-23 07:27 PM

是不是第二张剧照(YOUTUBE)特象特务? 不光肿, 还妖... 这就是功夫. :)

小中

比较而言，虽然更喜欢黄宗英的“味道”；可也没能免俗，买过王晓棠等的明星照。　看能不能翻出来，扫描上来。

mist

俺家也有几本旧的“大众电影”，小时候特喜欢看。

我上小学时在同学家自习。她家有一叠文革前的大众电影，我们总是偷看，看也看不够，觉得每个女演员都那么漂亮。后来想起来有些人其实不是天生丽质的，像张瑞芳，田华。 ...
yi_ran 发表于 2009-10-23 06:14 PM

mist

他们这是在骗人啊？

祝海雨好运气！

There were 4 finalists for that position, I emailed a detailed report told them how would I do that after the interview.  And the next day they gave me the offer and told me that my detailed report  ...
searain 发表于 2009-10-23 09:54 PM

mist

王晓棠还演过“山间铃响马帮来”，是不是也演女特务？没看过，只听说过。上面大家说的“英雄虎胆”也没看过。

见解

There were 4 finalists for that position, I emailed a detailed report told them how would I do that after the interview.  And the next day they gave me the offer and told me that my detailed report  ...
searain 发表于 2009-10-23 09:54 PM

Not sure about your exact situation behind the scene, while there are some aspects you might find helpful. My company also deals with government contracts, so there may be similarities in nature.

Service/project providers dealing with government would normally go through a bidding process. In the offer (not necessarily transparent to you) all detailed requirements and time restrictions should be specified. A system to be built may be required to interface with existing ones in terms of system software streamlining, maintenance and training, etc. So only the bidders would know what's best to be used/offered to get the contracts. The length of contracts would reflect the design phases, labor distribution and all miscellanous tasks. When it comes to government projects, new ideas, and/or redical innovations on approaches may be attractive but not necessarily no.1 factor---money sometimes is no big issue, as it would take efforts for different approaches to be phased into existing systems, although from bidders' point of view lower cost plans help with bidding success.

The govenment needs to track on providers' activities with regards to what's done, what's not and how it's done, within the deadline.

Your ideas and offers to greatly cutting down on to the project cost may be fairly feasible to them as an organization for completing the projects, while they should have some general guidelines sinece they already got the contracts.

Therefore, a safer way to stand out in the competition for a contract job may need you to stay in their course/intention, but you can definitely offer them incentives to complete it in shorter time, etc. as long as you could outdo other applicants.

You mentioned they are not familiar with your proposals, which again indicates also that after you finished job and (possibly) left, they have to deal with something not sure about.

Try to perform a bit more practically but with higher benefit margins so they can stay their course with advantages by hiring you.

Purely for your reference as the case can be totally different. Best luck in your endeavors --- hope they will re-consider you.

见解

他们这是在骗人啊？

祝海雨好运气！


mist 发表于 2009-10-23 11:34 PM

多年前，一个 fellow student 毕了业，找到一家对口的小公司，被要求两天之内做出一个小设计。做完了，FAX 过去，但没有拿到 JOB。这种事情不算少，听起来像考核一样，但为了拿到工作，申请人一般都会尽力去争取。。。

searain

Thanks for the info.

The project is not a tech project.  It is a social project.  The tech part is just offering the online tools for the social project.  I realized later on, that they really didn't care if the systems were the best so they could stand out of the competition in the business.  It is a non profit organization and they already got the funds so no competition now.  All they needed was getting some tools and whatever they were as long as it is usable.  After I told them that with open source systems that we could meet 80 - 85% of their requirements and I could use my time to develop the 15% requirements left.  I think they decided that they would just live with the open source systems as it is, to satisfy the 80% of their needs.  And forget about the rest 15-20% requirements.  They could live without it and cut the cost of a full time developer salary.   I learned my lesson.

老齯

怎么, 老二还有更加合适的人选?

当年看过, 印象最深的, 就是那段"伦巴"了. 那时可不得了, 多数人连TANGO都闻所未 ...
见解 发表于 2009-10-23 01:25 PM

偶认为秦怡的漂亮与风度是经受了时间考验的。她是上海人。匝地，不服？

王少将旗帜很一般，漂亮也谈不上。只不过在那封闭的年代，对伦巴的印象便爱屋及乌。换了别人，也照样会有“王丹凤演的角色中女土匪阿兰最漂亮”之类的感叹。

老齯

有个不美的女特务，好像叫叶琳琅，觉得她就是女特务的样子。
yi_ran 发表于 2009-10-23 07:19 PM

303?

mist

哎呀，可等到一个跟俺的口味一样的了。

虽然，俺也喜欢王晓棠(看过“野火春风斗古城”)，但老演员中，俺最爱的女演员是秦怡。五年前回国，看了电视主持人对秦怡的采访，都八十多岁了，那份漂亮，那风度，那气质，让人赞叹。那么困难的家庭，那么坎坷的遭遇，却那能保持那么平和的心态，真让人佩服。

没看过王丹凤演的电影，但看过电影小儿书，是“理发员的故事”吧。王丹凤的漂亮是那种洋气的漂亮。

其实，俺喜欢所有的老演员，有的虽然长得不漂亮，但演技好，有个性。不像现在的女演员，没有不漂亮的，但长得都差不多，没啥素质，实在是不能跟过去的那些演员比。

偶认为秦怡的漂亮与风度是经受了时间考验的。她是上海人。匝地，不服？  

王少将旗帜很一般 ...
老齯 发表于 2009-10-24 06:19 AM

mist

原来哪儿都有干这种这么不地道的事情的人啊。

多年前，一个 fellow student 毕了业，找到一家对口的小公司，被要求两天之内做出一个小设计。做完了，FA ...
见解 发表于 2009-10-24 01:18 AM

见解

哎呀，可等到一个跟俺的口味一样的了。

虽然，俺也喜欢王晓棠(看过“野火春风斗古城”)，但老演员中，俺最 ...
mist 发表于 2009-10-24 12:01 PM

原来阿雾上次还留了话没说出来。

这么说吧，这个角色，不是比风度。秦怡没得说，但大概更适合演恬静/深沉的角色，革命家等。老二可同意？难怪王一路特务下去了。

看一段ZT就清楚了。

解放后，秦怡进入上海电影制片厂，这时的她演技成熟而自然，在影片《农家乐》、《马兰花开》、《女篮五号》、《青春之歌》以及《铁道游击队》等影片中都有出色的表演。在《女篮五号》中，秦怡扮演的林洁，是一位在旧社会受尽苦难的篮球运动员，秦怡以深沉细腻的表演，展示了人物内心及生活中的复杂情感。在《青春之歌》中，她的表演含蓄而凝重，揭示了女主人公崇高的精神境界，秦怡成为当时最受欢迎的女电影演员之一。
　　80年代，秦怡主演了《海外赤子》、《雷雨》、《梦非梦》等影片，还主演了多集电视剧《上海屋檐下》，再度向世人展示了她那不同凡响的表演技巧，和她那具有东方女性魅力的风韵。

如今演员不行，归根结底是导演的水平不行。:)

Chang_Le

王晓棠还演过“山间铃响马帮来”，是不是也演女特务？没看过，只听说过。上面大家说的“英雄虎胆”也没看过 ...
mist 发表于 2009-10-23 11:39 PM

雾儿说的可能是<神秘的旅伴>，其中也有少数民族和马帮什么的，是五十年代初反特题材。王晓棠在其中演一个彝族姑娘，正面人物。其中插曲“绵桂花开十里香”非常好，属于那种“片子没人看了，插曲还在流传”那种。(如果六狗，可别打成“神秘的伴侣”呀 ：)  )。

<山间铃响马帮来>是另一部电影，女主角好像是孙景璐，男主角是于洋。是五十年代初少数民族地区剿匪的事。

Chang_Le

也祝海雨顺利！

老齯

其实，俺喜欢所有的老演员，有的虽然长得不漂亮，但演技好，有个性。不像现在的女演员，没有不漂亮的，但长得都差不多，没啥素质，实在是不能跟过去的那些演员比。mist 发表于 2009-10-24 12:01 PM

漂亮的人任何时代都会有。老头子看刘亦非，老太婆看陆毅5的，也养眼。但目前这个浮躁的大环境下，出现气质修养风度演技俱佳的演员是很不容易了，if still possible。

mist

见大家正在谈论王晓棠，就没好意思提别人：)。

同意你的意见，秦怡的形象太正，演不来女特务的邪劲：))

你转贴的这个帖子里提到的几部电影，我看过“女蓝五号”，“青春之歌”，和“铁道游击队”，可只对“铁道游击队”的那个形象有印象，叫什么嫂来着(差点说出祥林嫂：)))。

俺咋记得“青春之歌”是谢芳演的呢？

原来阿雾上次还留了话没说出来。

这么说吧，这个角色，不是比风度。秦怡没得说，但大概更适合演恬静/ ...
见解 发表于 2009-10-24 01:07 PM

mist

哈，谢谢常乐兄！

“神秘的伴侣”俺也听说过，可能也看过小儿书之类的。“缅桂花开十里香”的歌听说过，所以见到你提这个名字不觉得陌生，但歌没听过，也不知道是电影插曲。刚去YOUTUBE听了，找到了宋祖英和阎维文唱的，还找到了葫芦丝的演奏，是特别好听。谢谢常乐兄的提醒，要不然还真的冲着“神秘的伴侣”的名字找去了：)))

老电影里的插曲都特别好听，像“敖包相会”，“枯木逢春”，“柳堡的故事”，“人说山西好风光”，“花儿为什么这样红”等。


缅桂花开十里香 by 葫芦丝
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZBQxTP1I8


《缅桂花开十里香》by 宋祖英、阎维文
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF3XW0a6jSI

雾儿说的可能是，其中也有少数民族和马帮什么的，是五十年代初反特题材。王晓棠在其中演一个彝族姑娘，正 ...
Chang_Le 发表于 2009-10-24 05:04 PM

mist

“漂亮的人任何时代都会有。”
“但目前这个浮躁的大环境下，出现气质修养风度演技俱佳的演员是很不容易了，if still possible。”


完全同意。

不要说老头子喜欢看刘亦非，就连俺刚开始看到她的照片，都被迷住了，惊艳的感觉。

别说，对陆毅5的没啥感觉，但特喜欢柳云龙：)))

漂亮的人任何时代都会有。老头子看刘亦非，老太婆看陆毅5的，也养眼。但目前这个浮躁的大环境下，出现气 ...
老齯 发表于 2009-10-24 07:10 PM

雾雨

见大家正在谈论王晓棠，就没好意思提别人：)。

同意你的意见，秦怡的形象太正，演不来女特务的邪劲：))

...
mist 发表于 2009-10-24 07:28 PM

青春之歌是谢芳主演的，演林道静，秦怡演一个女地下党，他们还曾关在一个监狱里，
后来牺牲了。

秦怡的妹妹也在青春之歌里担任了一个小角色，就是叛徒“戴余”的女朋友，一个
教授的女儿，“左倾”的女大学生，很积极参加革命的。



顺祝：海雨尽快找到工作，如意。

见解

回复 39# 雾雨

"秦怡演一个女地下党，" See, that's her.

Chang_Le

哈，谢谢常乐兄！

“神秘的伴侣”俺也听说过，可能也看过小儿书之类的。“缅桂花开十里香”的歌听说过，所 ...
mist 发表于 2009-10-24 07:39 PM

雾儿别客气。你找到的两个版本都很好听。

Chang_Le

。。。可只对“铁道游击队”的那个形象有印象，叫什么嫂来着(差点说出祥林嫂：)))。
...
mist 发表于 2009-10-24 07:28 PM

方林嫂。

Chang_Le

青春之歌是谢芳主演的，演林道静，秦怡演一个女地下党，他们还曾关在一个监狱里，
后来牺牲了。

秦怡的 ...
雾雨 发表于 2009-10-24 07:43 PM

青春之歌： 女地下党 叫林红；秦文演的戴余的女友叫 王晓燕。

见解

回复 35# 老齯

"但目前这个浮躁的大环境下，出现气质修养风度演技俱佳的演员是很不容易了，"  还是先入为主，先入为主啊。秦怡早期的话剧也很成功，那时算是个啥大环境？
  
谁说都是漂亮脸蛋？俺看刘若英（在“天下无贼”）就不错。不过，这个随便例子不太好，不算大陆的。:)

见解

楼主好文采！
也“希望你好运气！”


欧对《野火春风斗古城》印象更深。

...
云天 发表于 2009-10-23 07:27 PM

是不错。而且，金环=银环。

红豆

是不是第二张剧照(YOUTUBE)特象特务?  不光肿, 还妖... 这就是功夫.
见解 发表于 2009-10-23 10:24 PM

对，特务特有的妖媚肿~~~

mist

谢谢雾雨。

俺看啥都是看过就忘。许多老电影都是先看的小说，后看的电影，可人名，情节等的还是记不住。

青春之歌是谢芳主演的，演林道静，秦怡演一个女地下党，他们还曾关在一个监狱里，
后来牺牲了。

秦怡的 ...
雾雨 发表于 2009-10-24 07:43 PM

mist

哈，跟祥林嫂就差一个字呢：))))

谢谢。

方林嫂。
Chang_Le 发表于 2009-10-24 08:43 PM

mist

常乐兄的记性太好了。

青春之歌： 女地下党 叫林红；秦文演的戴余的女友叫 王晓燕。
Chang_Le 发表于 2009-10-24 08:45 PM

mist

刘若英不是那种令人惊艳的美，但她很受看，气质也好。大陆一般演员没法跟她比，她是有文化底蕴的。

我只看过她演的电影“天下无贼”和与黄磊演的电视剧“似水流年”。

回复  老齯

"但目前这个浮躁的大环境下，出现气质修养风度演技俱佳的演员是很不容易了，"  还是先入为主 ...
见解 发表于 2009-10-24 08:47 PM